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 Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)

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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

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PostSubject: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 07, 2008 8:11 pm

Hey everyone.


I've been thinking. After seeing the results from the Melbourne cacti show with the multiple grafts of Pelecyphora on Pereskiopsis. I was wondering if anyone here has had sucess ?

I think Hylo would be a good stock for this purpose and I have just made a few grafts...we will see how it goes.
Whilst I wait and see how they develop has anyone else had sucess ?


Last edited by Hellonasty on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:47 pm; edited 3 times in total
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lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 07, 2008 9:00 pm

heres an ario multigraft also on pereskiopsis by the same grower:
http://cssaustralia.org.au/content/view/62/121/1/1/
(scroll down a bit)
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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 07, 2008 9:06 pm

WOW ! That's a nice graft.

Have you done any lewis ?
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KanJe
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KanJe

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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 07, 2008 10:13 pm

Might I had add the grower featured in the link above is very good at what he does has invested a serious amount of time and energy to get to that standard.
I think his work is inspiring.

Can I ask Hellonasty why you used Hylo for stock?
Feel free to shut me down as I've never successfully executed multiple grafts, I'm still mastering single ones...
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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 07, 2008 10:40 pm

No worries KanJe... and i'm not shutting anyone down Smile

There are a few reasons. As you are probably aware the young growth towards the apical meristem of the cactus is the best or optimum part of the plant to graft to. This is for many reason which has been covered elsewhere.

I have found it extremely difficult to graft to Aeroles and when sucessful the growth rate was slow. To by pass this I found it easier to wait for a new shoot to form and graft to the shoot. This provides nice new growth for an easier graft.

The problem with prereskiopsis is the new shoots fall off easy meaning as the scions grow they become too large and heavy causing them to drop. Anyone who had grown Hylo will know the new shoots become "woody" quickly and are much harder to snap off or beak.

In addition my scions are a little bit older and I find grafting to Hylo easier wtih older seedlings.

HN
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KanJe
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 08, 2008 12:53 am

Lol, I know how hard the stem on Hylos can get. I tried to take off an offset of one of mine thinking I wouldnt need tools. Funny enough the offset came off, but the entire vascular core was left still attached to the origional plant. What sucks is I dont think the offset will survive. Neutral

In regards to the pereskiopsis why dont you wait for another offset and instead of grafting to the actual offset, cut a kinda 'v' or 'l' into the areole. I guess the difference pemight be there will be a vascular ring developed which might help it take.
The is only a guess though.
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Kada
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Kada

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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 08, 2008 7:12 am

should work fine, but growth will slow down as compared to a singe graft. we did some before and they worked as expected, but slower growth overall...saves pot space but is more fragile and takes more "air space" lol.

Quote :
I have found it extremely difficult to graft to aeroles and when sucessful the growth rate was slow. To by pass this I
found it easier to wait for a new shoot to form and graft to the shoot.
This provides nice new growth for an easier graft.

this is due to chemicals in the plant (auxins). they are often concentrated in apical meristems (flowers, growth tips and roots). these tell the meristem to grow out, so there are less in the middle of the plant, until it decides to grow there. So the areole sitting on it sown, wont be too productive. but if you top the plant right above it (areole) or graft to an offest like you mention, growth will be much faster as thats where the plant is now concentrating its energy to push out new growth Smile

but as said, there is only so much the roots and chlorophyl can do....and if its stretched too far it will slow up, although probably not too noticable with such a water suckign grow hog like hylo's
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 08, 2008 9:50 am

Well I have kinda set up a test.....or benchmark. I have grafted 3 scions to one Hylo, and one to another. The stocks are cuttings about the same age and size it will be interesting to see how growth differs Smile

Kada,

Great to hear from you, you bring much knowledge to the board.

KanJe,

The V method is what I have used, I find it very problematic to say the least with younger scions. I'm usually grafting minitures and they are so small as seedlings its near imossible to first get it right and then do it with a precision to avoid bacteria getting in. Older scions and a larger stock is a difrent story.

Hmmm I do see what your saying.....Wait for the shoot to form, i'm thinking about 2-3cm and then cut if off at the base look for the vascular tissue and "try" and graft to that. Could be worth a go.
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Kada
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 08, 2008 4:46 pm

as long as its not TOO woody/hard/brown, should be good Smile hard vasucalar bundles often have dead cells, which is why fresh growth is preferred. but doubt a few cm off shoot would be that hard yet.

Quote :
I have grafted 3 scions to one Hylo, and one to
another. The stocks are cuttings about the same age and size it will be
interesting to see how growth differs

be great to see the results. got any pics?
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KanJe
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 08, 2008 6:41 pm

Good luck Hellonasty, keep us updated with your results. Smile
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lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 08, 2008 8:11 pm

i was thinking... perhaps Hanazono has some experience in this area?
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySun Nov 09, 2008 10:47 pm

Kada and KanJe,

I have only just done the grafts...I will post some pics in a few weeks once the grafts take.
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Kada
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyMon Nov 10, 2008 5:38 pm

awwww.....you know we are not that patient.
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 14, 2008 3:33 pm

Ok Kada......First Pics.


All the scions are Onzuka Variants (Regular, Tricostatum, Quadricosatum, Zebra, Red Zebra) I mixed the seeds and sew them during winter.

Grafted on 5/11/08. First pic is the benchmark to test growth rates. This scion was a little bigger to begin with.


Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) 3029188266_58e8632e13_b









Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) 3029187588_1a7113349b_b

Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) 3029187210_fc195a14e4_b
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Kada
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyFri Nov 14, 2008 5:22 pm

and they're off.


See how much better a pictures make things Smile
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cactusboy



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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 15, 2008 10:24 pm

This was my first attempt at a multi-graft onto pereskiopsis which I did around March-April of this year. So it hasn't had a real opportunity for a growth spurt bust as the weather has started to warm up the past couple of weeks its starting to move along. On one side is Lophs, the other side is a struggling Discocactus(although there were 2 others), and on top is Uebelmannia (either menimensis or crebispina). Hope the pic is clear enough

Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) Multi-graftLophsUebelDisco
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySat Nov 15, 2008 10:47 pm

Great Cactusboy, looks good.

This is how I did it for my first attempt (two scions).....it never put out any real growth. It will be interesting to see this as summer moves in.
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KanJe
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySun Nov 16, 2008 10:51 am

Hellonasty, they are looking good. I really interested to see how they go, keep us updated!

Cactusboy, I commend you for getting all the scion onto the one stock. I'm looking forward to seeing whether some grafts do better or if there is a consistent growth.
It's well done either way. Smile
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySun Nov 16, 2008 11:52 am

I certainly will keep everyone updated Kanje Smile It's good to see interest. I'm allways thinking up nutty ideas but never really post them. I'v a got a heap more grafting and other exprements going at the moment.
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lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySun Nov 16, 2008 8:08 pm

Nice graft cactusboy! Smile
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KanJe
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KanJe

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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySun Nov 16, 2008 8:49 pm

Cactusboy, I'm not sure if the scions are stressed or not.
What environment are you growing them in?
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cactusboy



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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptySun Nov 16, 2008 9:17 pm

I will keep everyone posted.

Kanje, I just have them on the middle shelf inside one of those cheap mini hothouses from bunnings. My younger grafts are fairly shaded most of the day although that graft is probably too close to the side that gets a couple of hours of the afternoon sun which may be causing that red stunted look on the Uebelmannia scion. I will shade that side very soon. The Lophs are really starting to plump up, must be the warm weather, seasol and miracle grow. Smile

My seedling grafts can be a bit hit and miss. Some things will just balloon and offset everywhere whilst other won't grow much faster than if it where growing on its own roots. I find that Lophs are very easy to graft (and more accepting) at any size. Overall I'm satisfied with my results, although I wish I had the grafting skills of Hanozano. Shocked
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Another Multi-Graft   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyThu Dec 18, 2008 3:46 pm

The other multi graft is doing great and all three have put on some nice growth Smile I will post a pic early in the new year. Since this sucess I have done another one which looks to be a sucess too. I grafted a Astro Caput-Medusae on the left. I can't find the bit of paper I wrote down what was on the other side Embarassed It is either a Ariocarpus Retusus Caespitosa or Obregonia Dengerii ?? Too smal to tell just yet.

The caput has really plumped up and is in active growth. When grafted the tubercle has only just broken the skin.


Anyway here it is:


Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) 3116787143_8b260c7172_b










Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) 3116788333_f3d0aa1ed1_b










Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) 3116788025_262542dbf7_b
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lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyTue Jan 13, 2009 1:42 pm

Great work HN! Very Happy Very Happy
i really like the digi.
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calycium
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Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08)   Multiple Grafting (Update 18/12/08) EmptyThu Jan 15, 2009 9:31 am

Two great species to graft and they look like they have taken - well done HN. I tried (and failed late last year) but your pic has given me an idea to have another go!
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