Grafted Astrophytum....Crazy pupping.

I grafted this astro in late January. It just sat dormant for a while but has now sprung in to action. Instead of the usual solitary head, it is puping like mad and growing very small heads.
The plant is a CV Onzuka. Never had this happen before. Anyone else ?

Intriguing!
are you sure the original growth point was not damaged?
If not and it continues to make heaps of tiny heads in this fashion then it might qualify as a monstrose, but it could well just be the effect of the stock..?

It has definetly not been damaged as it was in a sealed seedling container. Also it was showing this exact growth before it was grafted

Looks interesting HN. Keep us updated.

This type of growth isn't too uncommon in my experience. On pereskiopsis one in five ariocarpus grafts do this after a while. This can be a nuisance when your'e aiming to produce mature plants because many small heads will take a lot longer to flower. When astro's do this they tend to favour one head after a while.
It seems that this type of growth happens more often if the seedling is very young when grafted or if part of what would have developed into the seedling's tap root is left on the scion . I have also noticed that plants like this have a large burl like mass of of the stock growing into the scion.
I have read of chimera that have different genetics in different parts of the plants. An example is the red apples that we are familiar with. Apparently the DNA of the skin is mutated and diffent from the DNA of the fruits interior. If you tissue culture cells from inside a red apple the plants that are eventually produced will grow green apples that do not carry the mutation in the outer layer of epidermal cells. Other examples are the thornless types of berries which if propagated from root cuttings produce thorny types that dont have the chimeric mutation in the outer layers of cells. Note; not all chimera eventuate from grafts. Any plant that grows with mutated DNA in different parts of the plant (red apples) or a mixture of mutated and normal DNA can be termed a chimera(even if the mutated DNA originates from the same plant and not a stock) Strictly speaking a chimera is a plant with more that one type of DNA and not neccessarily from different species.
So if I explained that and it makes sense then I want to propose a theory on the cause of these offsetting mutations..... When a graft union forms callus tissue(full of meristemic cells able to form any part of a plant, akin to stem cells in animals) forms and grows through the layer of dead cells caused by cutting stock and scion. These callus cells then diferentiate into vascular tissues that enable the stock and scion to grow together vai the transfer of nutrients etc. It is usually from this callus in the graft union area that graft chimera originate. It seems to me that in the case of offsetting mutants the callus cells have gone a bit mad forming a knotted growth, like a burl on a tree, inside the body of the scion. While the outer layers of the scion still have DNA typical of the scion the inner mass is a mixture of stock and scion that has become unstable. When this inner mass grows vascular tissue in the vacinity of an areole on the scion a shoot is produced from the areole. Some times just a few areoles and usually lower on the body of the plant do this as with Astrophytums( this is usually when cells from the stock have only grown a little way into the scion. Sometimes the scion spontaneously looses its growing point and produces a bunch of offsets once like seems to be the case with the plant in the picture. Other times practically every aroele offsets and then the areoles on the offsets offset ad infinitum. That is when you get things like arios that are a mass of small offsets. In effect an internal chimera. Sometimes on arios the mass offsetting starts on a small area low on the plant and if not removed it takesover. I have some plants around 10cm that have dozens of heads maximum a cm or so wide. Will try to post a pic if I can work out how.
Still awake?
Anyone done any tissue culture? Sampling and reproducing from cells at different locations within an offsetting mutant would provide a clearer understanding of what is going on and perhaps some interesting chimera.
Actually having another look at the pic it looks like it may be a naturally multi headed seedling and perhaps not the result of the graft but I will post all this that I have typed any how.
P.S. Hello all, this is a first post from me. Sorry for going on a bit, it is a topic that fascinates me.

Hey cryptocarpa. Welcome.

As I said in my second post the seedling was showing this growth before it was grafted, hence why it was grafted. I have grafted many astro seedlings and have never seen this type of growth before. I understand a grafted scion, in particular to pereskiopsis, will pup frequently but this looks much different to me.

Please post some pictures of your grafts I would love to see them. You can post images by signing up for free to Flickr or Webshots and linking the photografts to the forum.

Here is a quick tutorial
http://forum.auscactiforum.net/site-feedback-f36/pics-from-flickr-t109.htm

Wow very interesting,well done.

Yeah keep us posted on the growth .
Cheers

wow! way to go on the info cryptocarpa, most enlightening.
Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for the info crypt, very fascinating and welcome to the cacti forum.

HN - will be interesting to see what develops.

HN. Thanks for info on posting pics. Yes the plant looks like a natural multi header it happens rarely with the cultivars.
try to post first pic. Will do more if it works and the sun comes out. Nice to see some rain here though alsmost forgot it happens sometimes it has been too long...













Edited by Hellonasty: To fix picture link.

Well picture worked comment didn't. The photo is of A. fissuratus var.lloydii at about 12 cm diameter.

cryptocarpa,

I edited your post to fix the picture Hope you don't mind.


Great plant. I have a few questions: How old is it ? how long has it been grafted ? Is this the first graft stock ?

It is four or five years old(tag has faded so a bit unsure) It has been on pereskiopsis all that time. Last year or so has grown very little and needs a regraft. Here is another one same story. A.bravoanus. This one shows the pupping around the base mutation. Interestingly if you cut off this stuff the top head will often die. Must be the vascular system goes through this on its way to the original head.

^^Link broken, picture does not work. Check your PM's cryptocarpa I have sent you some info on fixing it.

HN

Welcome to the forum cryptocarpa.
I really liked your post earlier, I found it really interesting.
I look forward to see some of your collection.


Does anyone know if this grafting scenario that was just mentioned occurs with certain stock more than others>?

Thought I would post an update on this graft. As you can see it is continuing to grow in the same fashion as the original pictures. I still don't know what to make of it.......I do know I like it

That's fascinating growth... the black spines against the white flecking make for a very attractive contrast.

looks great!!

Thanks, I am hoping it will produce another set of pups this year....that would be nice. Also it has one head with five ribs and the rest have 4, kinda strange.

the different ribbing is weird, but its a cool plant anyway

You can see similar plants in grafted Astrophytum. I have similar ones, myriostigma v nudum and asterias.
Normal pups will come out from areoles but your plant seems not.
I have never seen similar one on own-rooted Astrophytum.

I think the seedling on the photo of 12th March is shown quite strong Onzuka character but the character becomes weak on current plant.

I have a few A myriostogma (cv somethings) doing the same thing - they are grafted onto Trichocereus - quite an impressive way of mass propagation.

I have just done a A myriostigma kikko nudum which i hope will do the same.

Hanazono and WT please post a pic of your plants, I would love to see them.

Yes I agree with you Hanazono the pups are not coming from areoles. Have a look at the second last picture it looks like the first two cotyledons formed a growing tip each, and then the right side has split growing more heads.


Check this link out from over at Astromania, now thats a cool and weird pant.

http://www.panarottocactus.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=664&highlight=


I really like this one too,

NOT MY PLANT or PHOTO, many thanks to the original uploader

FWIW I have a feeling that the plant directly above is not a natural multiheader but rather what was originally a normal solitary A.myriostigma which, for whatever reason (be it insect damage, accident, deliberate drilling etc.) had the original growth point damaged by mechanical means which resulted in the cessation of apical dominance and subsequently the initiation of prolific new growth points from the lateral areoles. Some growers deliberately damage the growth point of solitary rare plants to induce mad pupping for propagational purposes.
This technique (i.e. drilling of growth point) is also used by commercial growers to produce the multiheaded E.grusonii so clumps popular in the trade.

Hellonasty
myriostigma v nudum cv khoyo
I took this photo in 2003. I degrafted and separated this plant and each heads has been grown own roots.

asterias cv megane-hakuten super kabuto
I took this photo in 2006. The stock has been cut as 3 cm length and buried in potting mix.

Hanazono