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 Stocks Vs Stocks

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Lachy
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Lachy

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 29, 2009 12:10 pm

Well, if you could find something with vascular bundles that could be aligned with a cactus scion, I don't know of anything that would stop it from grafting. I'm no expert on plant physiology - maybe someone could help me out here - but would attempting to graft a cactus scion to something from outside the cactaceae provoke some sort of fatal immune response in either the stock or scion?

I imagine that the two plants being united would have to be pretty close - I don't imagine that you could graft a cactus to say a rose or citrus stock - so maybe some succulents might be compatible?


Last edited by Lachy on Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KanJe
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 29, 2009 2:29 pm

A good way to look at it is like human blood types. If you need someone elses blood and your blood types is 'O+' and they have 'AB-'. Your body will reject it.
I guess with plants it is the same case.
Most would have thought that Euphorbia sp. were close enough to the Cactaceae family but to my knowledge they can't be grafted together.
I guess for the bonding process to work there has to be a certain likeness between the two plants and succulents are fairly distantly related in this regard.

There are always going to be grey areas, I just don't know most of the them. Rolling Eyes

I don't have a great knowledge of biology either, so I'm sorry I can't give you a scientific explanation.
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calycium
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calycium

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 29, 2009 9:53 pm

stick to common principles until you can at least graft to cacti/cacti - or you won't know what you are doing wrong.
(just my view is all)
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AmnesiA

AmnesiA

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 29, 2009 11:21 pm

Has anyone tried Echinopsis for grafting? as a stock? I've heard rumours it not bad, and rarely any rot problems.... I was also curious if anyone has ever experimented with grafting to fresh offsets on T pach/T Brig. I notice they always seem to have a real burst of growth initially as an offset but then slow down again. might be a good experiment to get super fast seedling growth.....

Hmmmm just share my thoughts.
-A
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gilligan

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyThu Jan 29, 2009 11:38 pm

Echinopsis... you mean the round ones, not the trich renamed echinopsis?
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AmnesiA

AmnesiA

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 12:10 am

Yeah, not the new taxonamy Question where tricho's are now echinopsis. BAH! why they have to make it so confusing. Yeah round stuff like Eyriesii scratch I knew someone would understand me.

-A
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windmill

windmill

Number of posts : 9
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 1:50 pm

calycium wrote:
stick to common principles until you can at least graft to cacti/cacti - or you won't know what you are doing wrong.
(just my view is all)

thanks i'll take this on board.. and meanwhile get some experimentation done..
cheers
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Hanazono
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Hanazono

Number of posts : 825
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PostSubject: Echinopsis eyriesii   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 30, 2009 8:44 pm

AmnesiA
Echinopsis eyriesii is a very good root stock for grafting.
You can graft form a large scion to a small seedlings.
You need around 2 weeks of preparation to graft a small seedling on eyriesii.
The charcteristics of the stock is:
Early flowering
Many flowers
I am away form home and I can not show the photo.
I can show you a photo of Ariocarpus grafted on a eyriesii when I came back to my home.
Hanazono
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Hanazono
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Hanazono

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptySat Jan 31, 2009 3:29 pm

AmnesiA
The attached photo is an Ariocarpus retusus v furfuraceus cv Seiji. Stock is an Echinopsis eyriesii.
I grafted a small pup 4 years ago. The current size is around 13 cm diameter.
When you graft a small scion including a seedling, you need 2 stages of stock cutting.
1st cutting: Cut holizontally top slightly and tapered top area ribs.
Waiting around 2 weeks. The top is regrown but the diameter of regrown part is small.
2nd cutting: Cut top until a vascular bandle appeared.
Since the daiameter of body and vascular bandle at regrown part is small, now you can graft a small scion.
You can see the 1st cutting on the stock in the photo.
Hanazono
Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 2827854710044113659S600x600Q85
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AmnesiA

AmnesiA

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptySat Jan 31, 2009 4:28 pm

Thanks Hanazono,

Appreciate you shedding some light on that one, id been told a few times it was a good stock but have never known anyone to use it, amazing to see just what one can achieve in 4 years. Did you cross yourself or obtain seed/seedling? fantastic CV. How long would you keep it on Eyriesii stock before it would need something else.

Thanks for the instructions, I will have to run some trials and error experiments I have plenty of Echinopsis stock plants. I'll play around and get the idea.

Cheers
-A
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Hanazono
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Hanazono

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptySun Feb 01, 2009 10:11 am

AmnesiA
Almost all seeds are collected in-house, crossing by myself but I still buy some seeds every year from VIC.
Eyriesii is not a parmanent stock but you can keep quite long time.
I may degraft the photo one next spring.
Since grafting joint of eyriesii is flat and so it is easy to degraft. Rerooting is also easier with flat face.
When you graft a scion on Hylocereus, the joint will be inside of scion and difficult to degraft and reroot.
Hanazono
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lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 02, 2009 3:17 pm

yes, Echinopsis make very good grafting stocks. Below are a pair of Toumeya papyracantha I grafted to an echinopsis hybrid about one and a half months ago. they would be bigger but i went away and they got really dehydrated. echinopsis stocks tend to offset prolifically following grafting but this is easily prevented by removing the areoles as you can see.
Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 Ech_gr11

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 Ech_gr10
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mutant
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mutant

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyFri Jan 22, 2010 4:37 am

Hellos hellos, my kind of discussion. Only 1,5 years of graft experiments in my back.

Quote :
Completely off topic, but, i really want someone to graft a Carnegia to another stock and see how it pumps up and takes off.
I am planning to do this this season!

Echinopsis eyriesii areoles look alot like Harissia jusberti.

I always like the idea of experimenting with different stocks, but I had failures with a certain Opuntia I used - which was also not practical due to glochids - I did many red gymno attempts, which might played a role in the failures. I saw that A.subulata is very compatible with opuntia family in general. This might also mean that echinopsis might stick very well.

I have used smallish echinopsis to graft slow growers. We see how this goes..

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 DSCN6119

The idea started when I got such an echionopsis and a small ario kotso grafted on it as gifts from a friend..

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 DSCN6122

This is also a great stock. Didn't know what it is , got it unlabeled from a friend but it looked good and it does wonders!! Only two attempts and its 100% and not the easiest cases - one was done in extreme hot summer, outside, most nodirect sun, but pretty hot and dry, no pressure, is the one you see in the photo, only a humidity tent was provided to reduce evaporation of humidity. took easily. Second attempt is much recent: a lopho pup from a echinopsis than roted due to injury [nasty cut] rescued by grafting on unrooted stock!

I had began to suspect it might as well selinicereus, but the suspicion cinfirmed when I say the photos that Cortona suggested.

Needless to say I already have used another selicereus that I haven't even seen flowered that is very common around here, which grows and roots like mad! It is doing very good with astro too!

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 P1000035
Monvilea monstr

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 P1000105
Gymno

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 P1000088
Turbini [you can see an orange scarring on the scion ....]

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 P1000087
Astro asterias. I found a stick insect chewing it! Thankfully it didn't damage the central meristem

==============

AND NOW THE QUESTIONS!

Do Pereskiopsis really prefer no-direct light?? Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 Affraid Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 Affraid

and, regarding harissia, it also like less direct too??? It's supposed to be more lasting too. Is this true...?

That might partly explain stalling of lopho on pere grafts in full light, even though in this occasion lopho also might prefer less direct light - that having being said, trichocereus as scions have grown fantastically on peres in direct sun ...

===========

I forgot this one

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 P1000101
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cactuscook
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cactuscook

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptySun May 09, 2010 2:55 pm

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 4590457143_d510d5d3ac

Just a photo of different stock all scions were same size when grafted. From left to right Harrisia,Hylocereus,Trichocereus and myrtillocactus stock are different sizes so to make it more accurate they should all be same size thought i would share photo anyway.
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cactuscook
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptySun May 09, 2010 7:42 pm

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 4591562038_51d511b165

Ariocarpus retusus scapharostaroides grafted as 30 day seedlings. The two middle ones are grafted onto harrisia sp and the two outer are myrtillocactus.
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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptySun May 09, 2010 11:45 pm

Great photos cactuscook. Harrisia sure is a great stock Smile

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cryptocarpa
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 7:13 pm

That is really good work you have done there with the different graft stocks cactuscook, I have always wanted to see the results of such an experiment.Thanks for showing us.
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Lachy
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Lachy

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 7:26 pm

Would it matter that the stocks in the experiment vary quite a bit in size?
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cactuscook
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cactuscook

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 8:26 pm

I agree stocks should all be same size to give a proper indication of growth rates. Thought i would show pic anyway interesting to see different stocks.
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cryptocarpa
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cryptocarpa

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 8:33 pm

Yeh the stock size would make a bit of a difference along with the quality of the graft union. But it probably doesn't totally account for how big the harrisia ones are. Also very interesting is the different effects stock species have on the appearance of the scions.
On advice from Kada's posts I raised a batch of Lamairocereus pruinosis to try as stocks this summer coming. Anyone got any Pictures or experience with this?
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Lachy
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 8:38 pm

It's really a fascinating little experiment. Harrisia definitely seems to be a great choice of stock, since you get the rapid growth of perry without the cactus-on-steroids look.

Now, if only Harrisia were more readily available...
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cactuscook
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 9:10 pm

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 4591005745_b6d296cfedThe beauty of harrisia is it can be a permanent stock.
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cactuscook
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 9:14 pm

Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 4590457139_c89162485eAnd harrisia gives lots of flowers and early. Ariocarpus agavoides
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cryptocarpa
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cryptocarpa

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyMon May 10, 2010 9:18 pm

Whoa that fantastic! I'll get a picture of what pereskiopsis did to an agavoides of mine but I am warning it'll hurt your eyes, just think Jabba the Hut.
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Darren
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 EmptyTue May 11, 2010 4:29 pm

haha yes my ario's are looking a little like jabba the hut also on the pereskiopsis Stocks Vs Stocks - Page 3 Icon_biggrin
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