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 where are the seeds???

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Darren
Calm and Collected
Darren

Number of posts : 352
Location : adelaide but moving to monbulk
Registration date : 2009-09-07

where are the seeds??? Empty
PostSubject: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 9:04 pm

i dont understand... i had been anciously waiting for my fruit to ripen on mammillaria pennispinosa. i started off with 4 fruit, i picked one but there was nothing in it so i ate it where are the seeds??? Icon_biggrin it tasted like the runner from kikuyu grass. I thought well must not be ripe yet so i waited... then one broke open so i pulled it off and cut it open...NOTHING. the remaining 2 fruit i left for ages until one started to dry out, then i pulled them both off and cut them open...NOTHING. so i ate them...still tasted bad and still no seed. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY SEEDS!!!
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Hellonasty
Admin
Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

where are the seeds??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptySat Dec 12, 2009 9:51 am

Darren,


Some species are a bit fussy when it comes to producing seeds and Mamms are one of them. I believe in general mamms are not self-fertile but that being said several of them have been found to be self-fertile.

In a perfect world each plant needs to be crossed with the same sp I.E. Mamm Pennispinosa (mother) should be crossed with Mamm Pennispinosa (father). The father plant cannot be a clone (cutting etc) or a plant grown from the same batch of seed because this would be a self-cross.

Now if you have two Mamms of different ssp flowering together cross pollination can occur, if the plant sets seed you will have a nice mamm hybrid BUT on most occasions the flower that is pollinated it will either produce NO seeds like Darrens or the seed will not be viable.

How was it pollinated ? Naturally ?

HN.

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My Cacti Blog, please come visit me.

http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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Darren
Calm and Collected
Darren

Number of posts : 352
Location : adelaide but moving to monbulk
Registration date : 2009-09-07

where are the seeds??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 8:37 pm

i hand polinated it from another pennispinosa grown from seed... i was sure it was going to give me some love! the interesting thing is that only one of the plants gave fruit even though i was dusting flowers between the two plants. i thought i had failed miserably when it took ages for the fruit to appear and then when the fruit arrived i thought all my christmas's hat come at once.unfortunately i did fail miserably where are the seeds??? Icon_sad

it is early days for me and the only cacti that i have been able to polinate is the mam. pennispinosa and my parodia werneri. (if anyone wants to trade some seeds let me know)

which leads me to another question... how do you collect pollen and save it for another flower and how long does it last?

ragards
Darren
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lewis
avid contributor & moderator


Number of posts : 862
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2008-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 9:38 pm

Quote :
The father plant cannot be a clone (cutting etc) or a plant grown from the same batch of seed because this would be a self-cross.

The parents can be from the same seed batch.
There is nothing against incest in plants. where are the seeds??? Icon_wink
There is a difference between inbreeding and selfing.
Two seedlings grown from seed from the same seed pod are, despite having the same parentage, genotypically different, albeit minimally, but still sufficiently so as to be different clones and facilitate successful fertilisation. Phenotypic variation of seedlings is more visually apparent and so more recognised. What in part influences the phenotype?
Keep inbreeding your plants long enough and it could probably result in degeneration and depression of the stock as the affects of the inheritance of recessive (-and often detrimental-) traits comes into effect (like variegation for example where are the seeds??? Icon_surprised ).

Some plants are self-fertile, though these tend to be few.
Others, which are normally self-sterile can, in the absence of a simultaneously flowering member of the same species, be encouraged to set viable seed via foreign pollen induced agamospermy. where are the seeds??? Icon_wink Again, I assume if this practice is continued over many generations it may more than likely also lead to a depression of plant vigour and indeed is probably already the case in some plants. where are the seeds??? Icon_rolleyes
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Darren
Calm and Collected
Darren

Number of posts : 352
Location : adelaide but moving to monbulk
Registration date : 2009-09-07

where are the seeds??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 9:47 pm

man i have so much to learn about all this genotypic phenotypic ...agamospermy??? atleast i learnt about genotypic & phenotypic when reading the blind watchmaker by richard dawkins where are the seeds??? Icon_biggrin
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lewis
avid contributor & moderator


Number of posts : 862
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2008-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 10:01 pm

...


Last edited by lewis on Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darren
Calm and Collected
Darren

Number of posts : 352
Location : adelaide but moving to monbulk
Registration date : 2009-09-07

where are the seeds??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 10:09 pm

let me get this straight... pollen from one unrelated plant can induce the non self fertile plant to produce seed through a process called "agamospermy" which would obviousely weaken the gene pool due to the resurrection of recessive traits in the plant.

is this common?

is it something that happens in all plants?

does it happen naturally?
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lewis
avid contributor & moderator


Number of posts : 862
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2008-05-07

where are the seeds??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 10:39 pm

Quote :
let me get this straight... pollen from one unrelated plant can induce the non self fertile plant to produce seed through a process called "agamospermy" which would obviousely weaken the gene pool due to the resurrection of recessive traits in the plant.
Pretty much.

Quote :
is this common?
Quite so.

Quote :
is it something that happens in all plants?
Possibly.

Quote :
does it happen naturally?
I guess so.

Fine, I got nothin. where are the seeds??? Icon_lol
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blowng
Calm and Collected
blowng

Number of posts : 256
Location : Mellville
Registration date : 2008-10-28

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PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyMon Dec 14, 2009 11:16 pm

very interesting thanks lewis, i think thats what i did with echinopsis and rebutia but the seedlings still looks like rebutia ,i wasnt sure what happened
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KanJe
watchman
KanJe

Number of posts : 393
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2008-06-24

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PostSubject: Re: where are the seeds???   where are the seeds??? EmptyTue Dec 15, 2009 8:58 am

Your a funny man Lewis. Good posts though.
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