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 Scarifying seed

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Charlie



Number of posts : 118
Location : 20k S of Coffs Hbr NSW
Registration date : 2008-09-14

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PostSubject: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyTue Sep 23, 2008 1:54 am

As youse prolly know, scarification is frequently used to improve the germination rate of lotsa spp. eg some Acacia. Seeds get treated with such means as sandpapering, boiling and my favourite: dropping them in sulphuric acid (enough to scarify anyone I reckon).

Yet I haven't noticed (which is typical) anything in this regard re. cactus seed. I suppose someone must have tried it. I'm guessing that if many cactus seeds require a period of soaking in order to initiate germination that they must have relatively tough seed coats.

Which is where, perhaps, scarification could come in. Boiling in battery acid might be a little extreme for cacti, but maybe some chem or physical means could help with some of the more reluctant species.
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Kada
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Kada

Number of posts : 204
Location : International
Registration date : 2008-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyTue Sep 23, 2008 3:22 am

not usually needed for most cacti, soaking generally isnt either, but may help some sp....if you were to try it i would suggest trying some Opuntia sp...they are usually large, and slow to sprout...perhaps they could benefit form this.
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WoodDragon

WoodDragon

Number of posts : 118
Location : Cool temperate
Registration date : 2008-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyTue Sep 23, 2008 2:44 pm

Some cacti have germination inhibitors on board that need to be soaked out to enhance the chances of growing. These inhibitors are a clever way of not sprouting when a light rain wets the seeds - they only grow when enough of a drench soaks out the inhibitor.

Frustratingly I can't remember the exact reference that I read that listed taxa known to have such inhibitors, but my method has always been to soak overnight in a mugful of water that is initially hot enough for a pleasant cuppa. This way I get upwards of three quarters germinating, and I don't quibble about the ones that don't come up.

I don't think that sandpaper would be a good alternative unless you were exceedingly carfull! It works well for things like rock-hard carob, although these buggers need a good soak in hot water overnight afterward at least, and sometimes up to a week of soaking. But trying sandpaper would probably give cactus seed meal if you werre heavy-handed. Wink

Acid might be a bit much for small seeds with relatively thin coats, unless you played around with dilution ratios and soaking times.
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Charlie



Number of posts : 118
Location : 20k S of Coffs Hbr NSW
Registration date : 2008-09-14

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyTue Sep 23, 2008 7:44 pm

Yes I guess that some methods are a little too dire for some cactus seed. And as Kada said maybe in a lot of cases these things aren't really necessary.

It sounds as though the germination inhibitors are worth looking at. Leaching them out with hot water i suppose would get close to what happens in the 'wild'. Simulating their natural habitat usually seems to be a good starting point for cultivation etc..

thanks
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watertrade
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watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyTue Sep 23, 2008 8:08 pm

I have recently had some frustrating Lophophora seeds - frustrating in that they had crappy germ rates (probably10%)
I tried two things

1: soaking in boiled water for 24 hours
And
2: soaking in boiled water for 24 hours & 100ppm Gibberellic acid

Results were - 1: 19% - 2: 30%

Not really significant results but it might help to soak in water for a while and GA3 might help too? I will be doing more tests with GA3 and see what happens. Smile
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watertrade
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watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyTue Sep 23, 2008 8:12 pm

- Note - sample size was quite small/ ~ 35
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Kada
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Kada

Number of posts : 204
Location : International
Registration date : 2008-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyWed Sep 24, 2008 5:20 am

i have read about germ. inhibitors as well, but i think that standard cacti sowing methods take care of that well. Moist substrate in humidity tent tends to keep things moist enough for the seeds not to think its a brief rain. soaking can help many species, but i dont think it is required at all. using high humidity in a plastic cover and moist (not dry and not wet) substrate should yield very good results.

i think most people failures, including mine, are more the error of the gardener.

over the years i have found these general guidelines have helped with almost any cacti seed i have sowed.

never bury seeds
top dress with *washed* sand, to prevent any mold and helps with bugs
never use mixes with organic chunks (wood, fibers etc)
keep in a semi sealed container using a clear plastic
keep 20-30 C
make sure there is always a big of condensation, but not huge drops

my %'s went up a LOT after i followed these, and i dont pre treat, sterilise or use chemicals (H2O2, fungicide etc) or anything. after i sow i dont touch them (other than a peak) for a few months, no dampingoff no bugs no problems Smile


watertrade you probably killed them. Lophophora seeds need no treatment, just some moisture and they should be up within the week.
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watertrade
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watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyWed Sep 24, 2008 9:27 am

Kada wrote:

watertrade you probably killed them. Lophophora seeds need no treatment, just some moisture and they should be up within the week.

I had a small improvement in germ rates - but again, not significant enough to bother with it next time. I think I just had old seeds - I normally have about pretty good results with Lophs - approx 80%
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Kada
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Kada

Number of posts : 204
Location : International
Registration date : 2008-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyWed Sep 24, 2008 11:26 pm

that sucks Sad even old seeds sprout well...loph seeds last for 10's of years...just need to store them ok....one thing i notice wastes seeds are not dried fully or stored humid, and they may germinate and die while in the bag...this happened to some dragon fruit i had a while ago, i found all tehse half assed germ'd seeds in the bag lol.
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Charlie



Number of posts : 118
Location : 20k S of Coffs Hbr NSW
Registration date : 2008-09-14

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyThu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 pm

Cactus-seed sprouts eh? ... maybe they're good for you!
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Kada
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Kada

Number of posts : 204
Location : International
Registration date : 2008-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyFri Sep 26, 2008 3:34 am

an ozzy making a crack at my English....argggggg this will never do! its all good M8.
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http://www.kadasgarden.com
Charlie



Number of posts : 118
Location : 20k S of Coffs Hbr NSW
Registration date : 2008-09-14

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PostSubject: Re: Scarifying seed   Scarifying seed EmptyFri Sep 26, 2008 6:06 pm

Nah its more about my bizarre dietary preferences!
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