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 germinating Ariocarpus

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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 12:11 pm

Hey guys,
Mitch here. Been reading threads for a while now but this is my first post.

I'm looking at getting some ariocarpus seeds and germinating them in chinese takeaway containers or by using the baggie method. I have seen information on the internet about the baggie method but would like to see how people on here do it.

Also, what potting mix do we use for germination of the ariocarpus.
I live in Melbourne just to give you guys an idea on the weather.

I've kept cactus and succulents for probably on 4 years now but am just a newbie and only propagated by cutting or offsets really.
Never had an ariocarpus before but I thought seeing as they take soooo long to grow I may as well get some sooner rather than later.

Thanks for everyone's help in advance. I'm sure there will be some good information.
Mitch.
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IXOXI
Cereus about Cacti
IXOXI

Number of posts : 521
Location : Glenhaven, NSW
Registration date : 2011-12-08

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 12:44 pm

G'Day Mitch, I'm pretty new here as well, though have been reading posts for months. You don't have to pick just 'container' or 'baggie' method, you can do both. I have my little cacti in containers, but leave the lids to the side, and have the containers inside large ziplock bags. If I need to I can just remove them from the bag and put on the lids, but usually I leave the lids off and keep them in the bags. Once the seedlings get to a certain height you can't put the lids back on anyhow, so I just stick a plastic plant ID tag into either end of the container, so the bag can't drop onto the seedlings, and they go well, plus I can adjust the humidity by leaving a little of the bag open if needed. ANyhow, there's no one right way, it is usually best to see what works for you.
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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 1:09 pm

Thanks for the advice. With the baggie method how do you go watering? Because taking the plant out of the bag would ruin the humidity but watering in the bag you would have water would sit at the bottom of the bag. Or do you just occasionally finely mist?
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IXOXI
Cereus about Cacti
IXOXI

Number of posts : 521
Location : Glenhaven, NSW
Registration date : 2011-12-08

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 2:26 pm

Seedlings need a lot more water then the adult plants. Many of my seedlings spend their first weeks in moist, nearly wet conditions. One person who has an article on the web actually starts his seeds in styrofoam cups submersed in water! Do a few searches on the web, and you will find that one of the biggest causes of seedling death is not enough water. There is no one solid formula that works for every species, but by doing a little research, you can get a good general idea for specific cacti.
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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 7:28 pm

Very good advice from IXOXI. I agree with the container/bag technique and find this works well I have also used just containers and had similar success. I tend to use bag/container for larger species such as Trichocereus, Cereus etc and use the container only for smaller species such as Ariocarpus or Astrophytum. Young Ariocarpus seedlings are very tolerant to humidity, I leave my seedlings in high humidity for approximately 6-8months depending on the time of year I sow them.

I personally love Ariocarpus and have been recently increasing my collection and re-potting some seedlings.

With regards to Mitchell's first post, I use coarse sharp sand for potting mix when starting Ariocarpus and nothing else. Any river sand should be fine and with the addition of a very mild fertiliser after a few weeks they will grow in plain old sand until 1 year old no problem.

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http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 8:30 pm

Thanks again guys for all the good info. I'm sure it will be of use to many others also. Obtaining sand is no probs at all. Too easy.
I will get started and go from there.
Once seeds have germinated I will be sure to post pictures alien

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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyWed Jan 25, 2012 9:37 pm

Just be sure it is coarse river sand or similar.

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Torro

Torro

Number of posts : 47
Location : Berlin, Germany
Registration date : 2009-09-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 7:11 pm

Or you may graft them, when they are out of there shell Razz
germinating Ariocarpus Ariotri01
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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 8:54 pm

If you de-graft them, how are they at setting root?
I've never really been interested in grafting. I know it reduces the risk of rot, but for me having low-organic levels in the soil will do the trick. I think for me I would prefer to grow them on their own roots, personal preference though.
I see that a lot of people do graft slow growers; I may try it one day but I think I will start of with something other than an Ario.
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Torro

Torro

Number of posts : 47
Location : Berlin, Germany
Registration date : 2009-09-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:10 pm

Mitch, I would not root them first.
(For me) Better is to regraft them to a lasting stock.

If you want to hide it, you may graft on an Echinopsis, then bury the stock.
The above ario is grafted on 28th Nov. 2011. Show me your first ario with
2 tubercels on own roots....
BTW here we have still winter.


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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:19 pm

Oooo. The challenge is up bounce
Can I grow an ario with 2 tubercles on roots in just on 2 months.
I really don't think so. But I'm up for a challenge Very Happy
How old was the plant when it was grafted?
I'll be sure to post how my seeds grow when i get them.
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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Depending on how many seed I get, I think I will try several different methods in growing Ariocarpus from seed. If I do this I'll document well and see which way grows the best.
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Torro

Torro

Number of posts : 47
Location : Berlin, Germany
Registration date : 2009-09-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:32 pm

Very Happy Mitch, I did not want to challenge you.
Just show how it can be done. I graft seedlings when they are some days old.
You see on the pic both sides of the ario - and still the seed shell.


Quote :
Can I grow an ario with 2 tubercles on roots in just on 2 months.
I fear not.
It is a good idea to try different methods and compare them.
In most cases 100 seeds cost nearly the same as 10.
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IXOXI
Cereus about Cacti
IXOXI

Number of posts : 521
Location : Glenhaven, NSW
Registration date : 2011-12-08

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:33 pm

Grafting is far far the fastest way, but each to their own favorite way Wink
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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:38 pm

Thanks guys. I think I'm convinced now Very Happy Grafting is the fastest method.
I'll still see how I go and when it comes time see whether I graft or not.
But there's just something about grafted plants that isn't aesthetically pleasing to me.
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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyThu Jan 26, 2012 9:42 pm

If I'm going to graft Ario's, what are some recommended stocks that I could use. If I'm going to use grafting method, I may as well get some stocks ready.
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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyFri Jan 27, 2012 10:08 am

Grafting is most definitely the fastest method especially for the ultra slow growers like Ariocarpus, however it becomes difficult when you want to grow and graft a large number of plants. I have spent many hours potting/re-potting stock plants and getting everything ready to graft.

For my last lot of Ariocarpus I put down 200 seeds grafted about 20 and let the remainder grow out, I must say it is very rewarding to grow these guys from seed Smile They are still tiny but coming along nicely.

HN

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http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyFri Jan 27, 2012 10:09 am

I recently re-potted about 100 of them I will get a picture and post it up Very Happy

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http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyFri Jan 27, 2012 11:02 am

mitchell101 wrote:
If I'm going to graft Ario's, what are some recommended stocks that I could use. If I'm going to use grafting method, I may as well get some stocks ready.

Slenicereus/Hylocereus are both good, so is Pereskiopsis.



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mitchell101



Number of posts : 134
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyFri Jan 27, 2012 6:35 pm

Very Happy I've already got some Slenicereus. Does it matter that they aren't mature? I rooted them as cuttings not so long ago.
I looked at photos of Hylocereus and noticed that their leaves look a bit like Epiphyllum,
how would Epi's go as a stock?
Would love to see your ario seedling mate.
Once again, really appreciate everyone's help
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Hellonasty
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Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyFri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm

I posted a separate thread with the seedlings mate. Epi's are no good, I have see a few experiments but never any success.

Most selenicereus are pretty good especially for younger seedlings.

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http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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IXOXI
Cereus about Cacti
IXOXI

Number of posts : 521
Location : Glenhaven, NSW
Registration date : 2011-12-08

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptyFri Jan 27, 2012 11:06 pm

I find the selenicereus good for some permanent grafts as well.
There is a really good PDF about the selenis, here's the link:

http://www.richtstatt.de/gymnos/docs/wick_graft.pdf

Another thing to remember, is that the Pereskiopsis is often not good for a freestanding graft for more then about 2 years, as the grafted scion becomes too big for the structure of the peres. You can attach the graft to a stake, if you want to keep it on there.
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Hanazono
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Hanazono

Number of posts : 825
Location : SA
Registration date : 2008-09-14

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PostSubject: Re: germinating Ariocarpus   germinating Ariocarpus EmptySat Jan 28, 2012 2:08 pm

mitchell101
If you use grafting stocks from cuttings, rooting is not critical.
It is better to use rooted stock but you can use a cutting without roots as a grafting stock.
The scion will grow immidiately after a successful grafting process if you used rooted stocks.
On the other hand you have to wait a bit but the scion will start to grow when roots of the stock start growing.
The success ratio of the grafting is not so different using rooted and non-rooted stocks.

IXOXI
Selenicereus is also quite thin.
If you grafted a large type of Ariocarus i.e. retusus and related, you have to consider a support.
Retusus var and cultivar will grow around 20 cm diameter.

Hanazono
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