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 grafting to un rooted stock

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watertrade
Calm and Collected
watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyTue Jan 27, 2009 5:14 pm

hi folks,

whats everyones thoughts on grafting seedlings to unrooted stocks? I normally get the stock on its own roots and growing before I graft but I have seen it done on unrooted stock too.
the reason i want to know is.. I have hylocereus stocks which start to die back at the tip while waiting to root. sometimes its ok but other times not.

it would just be easier if I could graft before rooting.

cheers
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gilligan

gilligan

Number of posts : 133
Location : Perth
Registration date : 2008-09-05

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyTue Jan 27, 2009 10:58 pm

i think this nis possible, but you'd need to make sure the moisture is kept up to the tip when waiting for the roots - i'm going through the same thing at the moment, my hylo tip has died off, i'm wondering whether i'll end up with 2 new pups or so - could be good if i can dual graft a few fissuratus to it... we'll see...

Def able to do it to pachs with larger scions, i just did it with another loph...
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trigonus
Admin & Cactus Fiend
trigonus

Number of posts : 879
Location : coastal NSW 1°C - 40°C
Registration date : 2008-01-23

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyWed Jan 28, 2009 6:42 pm

I did a loph to macro/peru un-rooted stocked that failed recently. Not too bothered since the stock will pup and the scion threw roots. I have heard many accounts of un-rooted stocks being successully utilised in this sitution and I can imagine that Hylo stocks would grow roots faster than Trichos and thus encouraging the scion to grow instead of aborting.

It's always good to experiment, especially if you have spares. Make sure you post about it here regarding your success/failure with this method.

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calycium
Moderator
calycium

Number of posts : 416
Location : Adelaide, SA
Registration date : 2008-04-06

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyThu Jan 29, 2009 9:54 pm

Trial and error. Bigger unrooted stock would have more tolerance, and I know its easily done with Optunias.
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watertrade
Calm and Collected
watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyTue May 05, 2009 10:43 pm

I answered my own question with a little experimentation. it seems to work fine with astrophytum grafted on hylocereus.
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KanJe
watchman
KanJe

Number of posts : 393
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2008-06-24

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyWed May 06, 2009 9:20 am

Have you noticed any difference in growth compared to a rooted stock?
Have an images?
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https://s673.photobucket.com/albums/vv99/KanJe_Garden/
watertrade
Calm and Collected
watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyWed May 06, 2009 8:10 pm

My experiments are in the very early stages - basically they have stuck on without shriveling up. Now I'm just waiting for the stock to root. I will post pics when there is some decent growth.

cheers
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Hellonasty
Admin
Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyWed May 06, 2009 9:53 pm

I have found the scion does grow slower in the beginning when there are NO roots. However there are a few factors working here. The beginning of a graft typically is slow anyway, the differnce between rooted / unrooted is extremely hard to measure. The stock has too root at some point and the scion must also "take".

Hylo is a good stock for either it has plenty of stored water and nutes to offer the scion, it also tollerates moist soil. Pereskiopsis on the other hand performs much better if rooted and growing steadily before hand.

Love to see your results WT.
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cortona



Number of posts : 69
Location : central italy tuscany cortona
Registration date : 2008-11-04

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyThu May 07, 2009 5:31 am

dear all
i have experimented in past season using unrooted cuttings of ylocereus and it take very nycely, in a season a pupps of rebutia heliosa give me about 40 new pupps!
also i use quite normaly opunzia compressa pads unrooted to graft almost everitings!
for more useful tips about grafting on opunzia pads visit the cactus art site of Valentino Vallicelli photos and tips in italian but also in english!
graethings
Emanuele
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cryptocarpa
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cryptocarpa

Number of posts : 268
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2009-03-14

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyThu May 07, 2009 7:13 am

It is a bit off the hylo topic but small seedlings will graft onto pereskiopsis cuttings as successfully as rooted stocks. It seems the time it takes to root the stock is when the graft is forming so growth of the scion is nearly as fast. You need to be very careful with maintaining a humid environment for a few weeks and sit them in a glass of water the first few days. When the stocks start to make shoots you can treat them as normal. I tried this to see if it would make the grafting process easier and more efficient. Actually it was not the case because of the care needed to inspect, repot ect. without knocking off the scion.
The grafting on opuntia compressa unrooted pads is very interesting. Does anyone have this plant here in Australia I would love to get some. O. ficus indica is o.k for a stock but the size and shape of most pads makes it a hassel to work.
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watertrade
Calm and Collected
watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptyThu May 07, 2009 9:02 am

cryptocarpa wrote:
It is a bit off the hylo topic but small seedlings will graft onto pereskiopsis cuttings as successfully as rooted stocks. It seems the time it takes to root the stock is when the graft is forming so growth of the scion is nearly as fast. You need to be very careful with maintaining a humid environment for a few weeks and sit them in a glass of water the first few days. When the stocks start to make shoots you can treat them as normal. I tried this to see if it would make the grafting process easier and more efficient. Actually it was not the case because of the care needed to inspect, repot ect. without knocking off the scion.
The grafting on opuntia compressa unrooted pads is very interesting. Does anyone have this plant here in Australia I would love to get some. O. ficus indica is o.k for a stock but the size and shape of most pads makes it a hassel to work.

I would like to work with som O compressa - I did some O ficus indica grafts - all but one have just sat their and done nothing. the one that did take off has done really well ( Astro myrio quad ) the I have some other grafting experiements I will add to the stocks vs stocks thread for the archive.


Do any aussies have compressa?
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watertrade
Calm and Collected
watertrade

Number of posts : 260
Location : Canberra
Registration date : 2008-05-16

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptySat May 09, 2009 10:29 pm

oops - nothing.
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Hanazono
Astromaniac
Hanazono

Number of posts : 825
Location : SA
Registration date : 2008-09-14

grafting to un rooted stock Empty
PostSubject: Re: grafting to un rooted stock   grafting to un rooted stock EmptySun May 10, 2009 6:14 am

watertrade
Young seedlings are grfted onto cuttings (no root) of Hylocereus commonly at commercial nurseries as a mass-production methood in some Asian countries.
It will get a better grafting success ratio when you graft seedlings onto no-root stock with thick-liquid plant e.g. Harrisia in wet season or in wet countries.
Hanazono
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