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 Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips

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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 12:28 am

These are the Mamm. seeds I have to sow when the weather warms up some (or I get off my butt and make my hotbed...which ever comes first Rolling Eyes) and I'm looking for tips on ones that might require a 'non-standard' approach:

Mamm.:

guelzowiana *
duwei
boolii
baumii
flavicentra
sanchez-mejoradae
senilis (R.S. 801 El Salto)
discolor
theresae *
perezdelarosae *
albicans
fraileana
meigeana
tetrancistra
hahniana
vallensis var brevispina
bombycina
pottsii
lenta
longimamma
prolifera texana
plumosa
picta
occidentalis
sinistrohamata
tesopaciensis var. papasqiarensis
bocasana (home grown seeds)
candida
mazatlanensis
uncinata
surculosa
compressa
grahamii
and
schumannii (*maybe... don't know much about this one)

The ones with a * are the ones I'm anticipating trouble with. Is there anything I should know about any of the others to improve my odds?

I'm posting this on the Mamm. forum too.


Last edited by TasV on Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Navajoa
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Navajoa

Number of posts : 599
Location : Australia
Registration date : 2009-09-15

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 7:55 am

G'Day TasV

In my own thoughts (and experience!), I'd say these would be the tough ones on your list

sanchez-mejoradae
theresae
tetrancistra

The first two as the seed is often harvested before it's ripe, so germination is usually poor. Tetrancistra is okay to germinate, but the seedlings are very susceptible to rotting away shortly after. Perezdelarosae hasn't been particularly hard...

I've tried a few suggested 'treatments' for theresae (soaking the seed for days first etc), but remain unconvinced that they did anything to improve the rate...

One thing I'd suggest is to treat them as a two year project. Try and keep the pots as free from algae etc and even if nothing comes up this first season, put them aside somewhere dark and dry for the winter and then try them again next season. It does work occasionally..
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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 4:38 pm

Thanks Nav. I read somewhere that theresae seeds also lasted a long time as the seed pods were crytocarpic (think I got that right)... or develop somewhat internally. Do you think it would help if I left the theresae in the bag and forgot about them for a year or two?
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shortly



Number of posts : 127
Location : SEQ
Registration date : 2008-06-28

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 7:52 pm

In my rather limited experance Mammís Boolii, senilis, hahniana, prolifera texana and grahamii are all easy to idiot proof.
Mamm schumannii however, despite being a beauty but is a pig of a plant.
Seems ok once it gets to an inch or so but im sure the seedlings were disappearing just to spite me.
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Navajoa
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Navajoa

Number of posts : 599
Location : Australia
Registration date : 2009-09-15

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 8:42 pm

Yep, they're called a "cryptocarp". A part of the theory is that the seed also has chemical inhibitors that inhibit germination for years, so that the seed outlives the parent plant, and essentially replaces it when the parent plant dies and the seed is finally released. This is the reasoning behind soaking the seed prior to sowing, to try and "rinse out" the chemical inhibitors. I don't know if the theory has really been proven as valid though and my own tests, while on a small scale, didn't show great results.
The other theory for poor germination rates is that because the fruit is hidden and the seed must be dug out, it's difficult to tell if the fruit and seed is actually ripe, so seed commercially offered can be infertile as it hasn't fully developed.
I have seed pods from the past few years on (in?) my plants, but I can't really bring myself to cut it out ! Maybe this Spring.... Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips Icon_lol
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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 9:08 pm

What do they look like 'in' the plant? The seeds are quite big for Mamm. seeds.
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Navajoa
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Navajoa

Number of posts : 599
Location : Australia
Registration date : 2009-09-15

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyWed Jul 07, 2010 9:19 pm

You can only see the "cap" of the pod...If I remember I'll see if I can get a photo on the weekend. The plants are fairly compressed now though, due to no water, so it might be hard to see...
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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 5:40 pm

Ok... my Mamm. marksianana did something like that this season as well. The seed pod didn't protrude out past the tubercle junction. Instead it was flat against the body of the plant with a small brown cap over it. When I grabbed the cap with tweezers (thinking it was just a spent flower) this long (~10mm), pink capsule came out leaving a hole in between the tubercules. I've not seen a cactus do that before. Looking at the other 'spent flowers' I pulled another 4 capsules out from the body. I sowed the seed straight away and have three little seedlings already (this was about 3 weeks ago).

So do you reckon if I store the theresae seeds for a few years instead some of these inhibitors might degrade? An experiment done with rose seeds, which contain absisic acid (among other things) that also acts like a germination inhibitor, was to soak the seeds in various enymes such as drain cleaners and bromelain. This begins to digest the seed coat allowing these inhibitors to leach out more freely. I also do something called embryo extraction where I crack the seed open, and peel back the testa (inner seed coat) and germinate the embryo instead. It takes only a few days instead of 2-3 months to get them to germinate because it's been shown the germination inhibitors are in the seed coat and testa and once removed they germinate immediately. Cacus seed is a bit small Rolling Eyes to do this too... but I wonder what effect something like scarification might have to accelerate leaching of these inhibitors???

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Hellonasty
Admin
Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyFri Jul 09, 2010 12:03 am

I would think most would be straight forward with the exception of:

Sanchez-mejoradae (not all that difficult) follow Ariocarpus germination and you will be apples.


Theresae, I got them to come up by soaking in GA3 (Gibberelic acid) for 12 hours at 750ppm. Honestly I don't know if the GA3 helped at all but I had several germinate Smile


Good luck.
HN

_________________

My Cacti Blog, please come visit me.

http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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Hanazono
Astromaniac
Hanazono

Number of posts : 825
Location : SA
Registration date : 2008-09-14

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 6:28 am

I bought 10 seeds of theresae f MZ364 Passo de Coneto in 2004 and just 1 germinated without any seed treatment.
I thought the low germination success raito came from unknown seeds source.
Since theresae could be incleased numbers by tubercle grafting quite easily, I did not sow seeds after.
I cleaned flower remains up yesterday and collected about 60 matured seeds.
I will sow these seeds in spring.
The photo is theresae f MZ Passo de Coneto. I think flower color is slightly different from standard one.
Hanazono
Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips 2538614200044113659S600x600Q85
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http://frank-southofaridland.blogspot.com/
Navajoa
Moderator
Navajoa

Number of posts : 599
Location : Australia
Registration date : 2009-09-15

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 2:45 pm

That is one impressive showing Hanazono !! Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips Icon_cool

TasV, not sure if keeping the seed for a while helps or not... Don't think I'd have the patience myself !! Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips Icon_razz

HN, what were your operall impressions after using the GA3 ?? I've been thinking of doing some test with it ...Can I ask where you got it also and what form it was in ie liquid, powder etc ?

TasV here's a rough and ready shot of the pod on one of my theresae's, The plant's pretty shrunken at the moment as it hasn't had a drink for 3 months, so it's probably getting a bit thirsty!

Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips 4782119842_5e17703c52_b
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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 10:04 pm

Thanks Nav... pretty good photo for rough-and-ready Wink This is exactly what marksiana did for me this year. I noticed today that marksiana is starting to make huge amounts of wool in a circle around it's apex and this usually means it wants to flower soon... so I'll keep an eye on it as well.

Josh, I'm not that much into Ario... at this point in time... what's the Ario. method for germinating the sanchez. seeds?

I was also thinking that because Corphantha are pretty closely aligned with Mamms. that I'd add to the list some of these I have to sow as well incase they have any special requirements:

Coryphantha:

erecta
compacta
compacta var. palmeri

Any name corrections needed would be greatly appreciated as well.

Cheers,

Simon
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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 10:08 pm

shortly wrote:
Mamm schumannii however... Seems ok once it gets to an inch or so but im sure the seedlings were disappearing just to spite me.

I've also read that Mamm. senilis can do this too Shortly. Has anyone else ever encountered this with senilis?
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Hellonasty
Admin
Hellonasty

Number of posts : 1824
Location : NSW
Registration date : 2008-04-04

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyMon Jul 12, 2010 11:22 am

Nava, The Ga3 is a liquid in a 100ml bottle it was pretty cheap from memory 10-15 dollars. The place I bought it from has closed down. Search for tissue culture web sites Smile



TasV, check this site out it has a few different methods aimed at Ariocarpus and slow growing cacti. http://www.living-rocks.com/cultivation.htm

_________________

My Cacti Blog, please come visit me.

http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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TasV

TasV

Number of posts : 145
Location : NW Tasmania
Registration date : 2010-03-12

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PostSubject: Re: Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips   Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips EmptyMon Jul 12, 2010 8:42 pm

I read the article on raising Ario. from seed. It looks a lot like what I do for most seeds anyway. Seeds to sow this coming spring... looking for tips 634470
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